What brand and what are the specs on your cam, 4-linked72? These numbers can vary a few inches one way or the other, depending on several other aftermarket factors and your individual engine specifications, so you may want to check your vacuum once the cam is installed. 110 LSA: On the other hand, 110 LSA is comparatively a wider LSA; it can generate a massive amount of RPM for the engine. by Kdub Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:05 pm, Post But an interestingly shocking fact is that this event escalates the air-fuel mixtures reaction rates, causing temperatures to rise and causing the problem of overheating the engine. In my opinion, the rougher the idle the better! 108 is very tight producing lower vacuum and more of a 2 stroke "punch" powerband. 11 Doing LS cam swaps on the engine dyno is a breeze, each taking less than 1 hour. by ANT Mon May 12, 2003 1:47 pm, Post Lucky for us, Brian Tooley Racing stepped up with a dual spring package that allowed us to safely run our 0.624-lift cam. Has anybody experienced it/ tried it? 2.1.2.4.2 Side-lobe suppression shall be provided in accordance with the provisions of 3.1.2.1.5.2.1 on all Mode S-only all-call interrogations. 110 LSA: You will find the complete opposite scenario here. But it is a piece of good news for your engine. somthing to that aspect. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Hopefully it turns out great. The graph above compares intake valve closing points of the three cams used in the test. The 112-degree cam (red lines) picked up much of the torque, but the big winner was the cam with the tightest lobe separation angle. thanks. by MELWAY Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:18 pm, Post I normally run a 106 to a 108 because I like the "hit" a tighter LC cam has when it come up on the came. Well, If I am not mistaken, you must be looking for which angle has what impact on your engine or which would be the best. Since we were only changing the lobe separation angle, we had to make sure every variable (air/fuel, timing, water, air, and oil temps) was identical during testing. It affects the amount of valve overlap; that is the brief period of time when both the intake and exhaust valves are open.. The center of those 2 events is the LOBE CENTERLINE (ECL). With a 108 degree lobe center, a cam will have a rougher idle and produce less vacuum due to more overlap. So the wider LSA introduces a broader and therefore longer torque band.. The #1 intake lobe centerline is usually between 100 A cam with a 112lobe center will idle smoother than a cam with a 110lobe center. . Test 1 was easy. That is why 106 LSA consumes less oil. For example, an oval-track small-block that needs to motivate the car off the turns quickly might have a narrow LSA of around 106 degrees, resulting in more overlap. The lobe separation angle in a natural car engine conveys a considerable impact, especially regarding the maximum torque. If you look at the cam card, you will find a maximum lift column on the card.Now, all you have to do is, add up the two mentioned maximum angles and divide the summation by 2. The final cam was tighter still, with a 108-degree LSA. Yearh, I have been reading a lot about this issue. Camshafts with a substantial overlapping tendency should not be used in vehicles driven on public streets. Also know as Lobe Separation; Lobe Center is simply the distance between the peak opening points on the Intake and Exhaust lobes. Simply put, both 106 and 110 lobe separation angles have many advantages and disadvantages. 106 LSA: At 106 LSA, the cylinder pressure is a bit higher. kinda off topic.. but while we're on the topic of cams, duration,lift,ect has anybody heard of using high compreshion (13:1) on pump gas, by useing alot of duration? Big strokers like tighter LCA but it really depends on your combo and usage, theres great OTS cams but for a custom engine a custom cam is the way to go With identical cam lobes you won't see a bit of difference. I think that cam had 110 lobe sep. Im loking at a summit cam with close to the same lift and duration #s but 114 lobe sep. The final, 108-degree cam stepped power up even further, with peaks of 572 hp at 6,300 rpm and 544 lb-ft at 5,200 rpm. It's the scavenging effect of the high velocity exhaust gases rushing out that pulls the fresh fuel/air charge into the chamber. Mike Magda is a veteran automotive writer with credits in publications such as Racecar Engineering, Hot Rod, Engine Technology International, Motor Trend, Automobile, Automotive Testing Technology and Professional Motorsport World. This comparison highlights that the 106 LSA is a good performer in a few mechanical aspects than the 110 LSA. A forum community dedicated to Ford performance owners and enthusiasts. 110 LSA: On the other hand, 110 LSA is a wider LSA with almost no overlap. If you're an OEM automaker looking for a steady idle, good fuel economy, and passing tailpipe emissions, this is the cam of choice. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. When boost or nitrous are introduced, and engine builders contemplate choices between single-, dual- or reverse-pattern camshafts then the discussion gets muchmore technical. LS Exhaust Manifold Bolt Torque (Everything You Need To Know), Holley Power Valve Sizes: Everything There is to Know. I just bought a 86b Webcam with 112 lobe centers for my 2276. If the overlap phase occurs too early, it will create an overly rich condition in the exhaust port, severely decreasing the gas mileage. However, finding them might be challenging if you dont have any prior knowledge. This cam also offered the highest torque output at 4,000 rpm with 522 lb-ft. Based on the peak numbers alone you might be tempted to grab the one with the tightest (108-degree) LSA, but there is more to a cam test than power. As usual, Marc (aka Master) is correct. All rights reserved. Lower cylinder pressure is advantageous for your engine. Now that we have a basic understanding of lobe separation angle, we can put together a test to illustrate just what happens when you make changes to it. "When you've properly tuned a performance motor, you create high- and low-pressure waves in the intake and exhaust that help cylinder filling," said Comp Cams' Billy Godbold. The wider lobe separation angle closes the intake valve later and reduces cylinder pressure, so that is where it's detonation resistance comes from. The 234o duration kind of eliminates the RV usage. I've heard similar cams (only about 5*'s off) and they have a nice rumble to them. A narrower LCA will increase valve overlap and close the (intake) valve earlier, which explains the typical rougher idler and more midrange behaviour. This may be of concern if you have vacuum assisted accessories, such as power brakes or steering. Adding an aftermarket cam to an otherwise stock engine can boost output by 40-60 hp (or more) with no other changes (except possibly a valvespring upgrade). In terms of horsepower, the disparity between all three cams was only 6.5 hp, with a scant 100 rpm separating the peaks. That means your engine can produce more power with a minimum amount of fuel combustion. To overcome this inherent problem in wide LSA camshafts, you simply need a higher-flowing intake port. Unfortunately, good street manners are often at odds with performance, as wilder cam timing usually decreases idle and (low-speed) driveability. 10 Tuning the timing curve and fuel from the 42-lb/hr FAST injectors was handled by this Holley HP management system. Bolander says those cams help promote torque in a controlled and predictable manner, especially in no-wake zones and around the docks. However, it is fixable. So, which is better? It really comes down to the application. The standard bore block was then stuffed with a 4340 forged steel 4.0-inch crank and 6.125-inch rods, along with a set of flat-top, forged JE pistons. My engine shop builds all kinds of hot rod motors, and they told me that because I am running a 4 speed manual, I will better be able to take advantage of the 108 LSA. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. But, you may wonder knowing that a higher valve clearance rate reduces the chance of damaging the valve by the piston. Noah knows a lot about whats happening in the car industry with the latest piloting productions thanks to his professional experience. 110* LSA - lobe separation angle (lobe displacement angle) The +2* means your intake lobe centerline is advanced to obtain a 108* ICL - intake centerline and a 112* ECL - exhaust centerline. i've heard of this being done something about the massive amounts of duration allowes gasses to disipate? If you take any of the . As a result, a wider valve opening system with no overlapping allows more oil to fall through the oil inlet. If two cams are identical with the exception of lobe separation angle (we'll say 108 and 114) the cam with 114LSA will make more low end power than the 108LSA cam? On the surface, the camshaft's job is simpleopen and close the valvesbut beyond that topical description, it's one of the most mysterious and misunderstood engine components. But i would nt go any wider than 110. Simply put, both 106 and 110 lobe separation angles have many advantages and disadvantages. But for small-block Chevys (like the LS applications in this story), the LSA is ground into the cam. The lobe separation angle is a comprise of what the engine needs depending on the compression, combustion chamber, rpm, engine size, head volume, and many, many other variables. I bet you won't see a bit of difference. Tuning this cam would be slightly more difficult due to the reduced idle vacuum, but it is hard to argue with all the extra power. To illustrate the differences offered by changes in the LSA, we had Crane cams grind us three cam profiles that shared the same lift and duration figures, but differed only in the LSA. It should still make close to 600hp and 600tq in my 512" stealth headed big block. Post The LSA, or lobe separation angle, is ground into the cam and cannot be changed. 07 Though the CNC-ported heads offered plenty of flow, it was necessary to upgrade the supplied valvesprings. The 114 cam will give more low end torque, good midrange, less power up high. The only reason I . Your best bet would be to talk to one of the experts at a cam company to get a custom grind if you're that into the specs. It is possible to advance and retard the timing events, but the distance between the centerline of the lobes will remain constant. Nitrous engines, which make plenty of power and torque, often run wide lobe separation angles to moderate cylinder pressures and temperatures. JavaScript is disabled. 112-110 Deg. As boost increases, the air will be forced through the cylinder, vs. being trapped in the cylinder. Lobe separation angles, he continues, are influenced by the camshaft grind. I just installed a Comp Cams XE262 in a 9:1 350 with stock iron heads. 1966 Toyota Landcruiserunder construction. This has been my long time understanding! More than any other component, the cam profile determines things like idle quality, mileage, and overall driveability. It had a robust powerband with tons of usable torque. The piston and cylinder damage possibility is pretty low at 110 LSA. Howards Cam Vs Comp Cam: Which Is The Best Option For You? i have a 4 bolt 351C, stock bore, 10.5 cr with 351C Boss heads ,boss crank and rods. Retarding the camshaft (a higher intake lobe centerline number 108 vs. 104) will generally start the power band later in the RPM range and decrease the cylinder pressure. by Marc Mon May 12, 2003 11:38 am, Post Generally speaking, decreasing the lobe centerline angle increases overlap. Pinning the tail on the perfect cam can certainly be a difficult task. Average power was also down, but the engine pulled ahead of the 101 cam at 5,400 rpm, picking up 6.5 hp at peak. Pretty much standard for an RV type cam. 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A wide lobe seperation is not always better than a narrow one, or vise versa. A cam card with its myriad numbers, acronyms, and abbreviations is one red-pen stroke away from a failed math test. Chuck Lawrence of Jon Kaase Racing Engines was asked to give a 520ci BBF a Pro Stock sound, so he went with a 108 LSA in place of a more conventional 112 LSA. We do not stock profiles with 109 or 114 lobe centers. Lobe separations gives lots of overlap and lobe centers just happens when the grinder decides how the peak of the lobe will arrive on a specific grind by their tooling. I forgot to add that poor vacuum is not much of a concern to me because I have no power accessories. - Sheryl Crow. I'm sorry to disagree with that incredibly well written article, but lobe separation by itself is absolutely freaking meaningless. Frankly cams with a 108-114 lca unless in the perfect combo you won't usually see more than 15hp and you won't really feel the difference except for either a peaky or broad power band. This wave tuning is what helps performance engines achieve volumetric efficiencies of more than 100 percent. The 110 is probably a better choice for a performance street engine. 110 LSA: On the contrary, it is pretty unpleasant to inform you that the efficient compression rate decreases at 110 LSA. by jim martin Mon May 12, 2003 7:10 pm, Post Typically, narrower lobe separation develops peak torque at lower rpm and widening the separation tends to build peak torque higher in the rpm range. It affects the amount of valve overlap; that is the brief period of time when both the intake and exhaust valves are open. You must log in or register to reply here. The Crane has a smoother idle, broader power band, and . = Moderately Wide 110-108 Deg. The SAME can be said. Lobe seperation cant be seperated from duration,the 2 are connected.the old duntov cam had a lot less duration than many new cams so the valve overlap was not extreme and the engine ran with a gentle lope.Increase the duration by 20* and this cam would shake a 283 out of the car at idle,but then increase the lobe seperation by 4* and the motor will have a gentle lope again. by flat4racer17 Tue May 13, 2003 9:12 pm, Post 2023 Power Automedia. Pick the cam with the valve timing events that fit the engine best, forget about LSA, it is only a result of the events. See all 14 photos 13 The three power curves indicate that the wide (120-degree). When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Boom, you get the lobe separation angle of that engine. 1-4 It is one of the most common neurological disorders worldwide, 1-5 is among the most common . The lobe separation angle is the angle in camshaft degrees between the maximum lift points, or centerlines, of the intake and exhaust lobes, says Eric Bolander of Erson Cams. (2002) et rappel sur une carte hors texte. With minimal overlap and a steady manifold vacuum signal, they work great with fuel-injection systems and are the norm on modern pushrod engines, such as the LS and Gen III hemi. After the next three pulls, it was clear the 113 cam was way down on low-end torque. Let's just talk lobe sep angle. Nothing makes mouths drop like a car that sounds and looks like it can't keep it self still! Depending on the engine combination, the opposite results can occur. Come join the discussion about popular models such as the Mustang, Galaxie, Falcon, Fairlane, Torino, Shelby and many more! But, the narrow or broad powerband choice varies from person to person. Before we all start suffering from separation anxiety, we need to understand what lobe separation angle actually is and then how it affects your engine. The 290 advertised duration and 114 lobe separation would contribute to a lazy power curve. But, after comparing these two LSA based on a few mechanical aspects, such as maximum Torque, RPM, powerband, oil consumption, and many more, you will find the 106 LSA with better performance output. Elle concerne 264 taxons des degrs divers. 106 LSA: 106LSA results in a decrease in piston-to-valve clearance. LSA helps determine the cam's behavior; you can take a given set of lift and duration figures, change the LSA, and get cams with vastly different characteristics. Another related thought to consider when selecting a cam is inches of vacuum for your engine application when deciding upon a Lobe Center. But it also has a lot of lobe separation. Turbochargers are not as simple as they may sound; you may think of them only as power-boosting components. 238/248 duration, 300/310 adv. Our content is merely suggestive, not intended to use without proper safety precautions and advice. I also like the 106 lobe separation with the intake on 103. 106 LSA: As the 106 LSA is a tighter LSA, it fails to generate maximum power. I probably would have gone with 3.55 gears had I knows better.. However, these rules are not absolute. probably just enough to get me in trouble.. Simply put, the lobe separation angle (LSA) is a measurement of how the intake and exhaust lobes are phased with each other. But to choose the perfect cam, all of that information needs understanding. The tighter the lobe separation angle, the peakier the power curve will be, confirms Bolander. Do you know what the best lobe separation angle for your car engine is? 09 All testing was run through a set of 1 3/4-inch long-tube headers and 3-inch exhaust. On a naturally aspirated engine, the lobe separation angle has an effect on whether the engine reaches peak torque a little earlier or later in the rpm range. Similarly, 110 LSA is also found to be a more fabulous performer in several mechanical aspects. Anybody do any real testing on LSA in a 3.75 stroke small block chevy?I have always used 104-106 and was thinking about trying a 108 or 110 design.I know there is a lot of variables but just a general opinion from any experts.This is for motor only no nitrous.600-640 HP engine combos.Much appreciated! I'd also go to a 110-112 lobe separation angle. For Example: A 110-degree lobe separation means that the peak opening points of the Intake and Exhaust lobes is 110 degrees apart. by SStrokerAce Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:22 am, Post Mechanical aspects like maximum torque, narrower powerband, higher cranking compression rate, efficient compression rate, effective EGR effect, and lower oil consumption rate increase the car engines efficiency and make it energy efficient. A narrower lobe separation angle can provide less power but can also lead to less wear. I have 108 for LSA and my headlights take awhile to go up when the car is idling. It affects the powerband and temperament of a motor more than any other single part, and a slight change can turn a car from a mild-tempered grocery-getter to a downright nasty machine. No, it is not even close to the ultimate performance grind most would have picked. Due to the tightness and frequent overlapping of the intake and exhaust valves, the engine cant generate the high RPM as it is supposed to. The valve covers, valvetrain, intake manifold, harmonic balancer, front cover, timing set, and cam were yanked. Idle vacuum showed a considerable spike to 14.7 in-Hg, likely the difference between being able to run power brakes and a mandatory leg workout. So, this LSA is suitable for your engine and its components. I've seen a few comments in threads on here that have said things like "going to the 112LC from the 108LC gives 4lbft more torque at the bottom and 2bhp more at the top" yet this would seem to go against what webcam say on. I have used some cut on a 110 that worked well too, but they never sounded as good as the tight ones. Professionally ported & polished iron 4V head with titanium intake valves, stainless exhaust, titanium retainers & keepers & dual springs. That lopey idle that is universally loved, and part of the allure of a tight LSA cam, is actually misfire caused from a combination of exhaust dilution in the intake manifold and poor cylinder filling at idle. The second cam would have a rougher idle, produce more torque and would rev quicker. The lumpy-idling 101 LSA cam churned out an average of 484.0 hp at 6,100 rpm with 493.9 lb-ft of torque at 4,400 rpm. A cam with a 112 lobe center will idle smoother than a cam with a 110 lobe center. 106 LSA: So, if I talk about the powerband at 106 LSA, the powerband is narrow. LSA is a result of valve timing events. The tighter the lobe center, the lower the RPM range; the wider the lobe center, the higher the RPM range. A forum community dedicated to vintage Ford Mustang owners and enthusiasts. I just bought a 86b Webcam and Im using 1.5's. 02 The 402-inch stroker short-block combined an aluminum LS2 block with a 4.000-inch crank and 6.125-inch rods. How do the lobe separations change when you factor in turbocharging? Although both wide (112-116) and narrow (102-110) lobe separation angles do have an effect on overlap, it's still possible to get a lot of overlap with very wide lobe separation angle cams. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The 112-degree cam offered nearly all the low-speed and mid-range torque of the 108 cam but the peak power suffered above 5,200 rpm. A good amount of idle vacuum or increased idle vacuum found at 110 LSA advances the engines efficiency. I'd run it, just be sure to check valve to piston clearance, coil bind and retainer to guide boss/seal clearance. But, you may find a lobe wider than a 120-degree angle in any car engine.But, I must let you know that those are customized car engines prepared for any special purpose, such as racing, drag racing, off-road riding, or performing stunts. A commonly held misconception is that intake/exhaust overlap contributes to lower cranking compression. The stock valvesprings supplied with the CNC LS3 heads were swapped out in favor of a set of dual springs from Brian Tooley Racing. If you look at any given cam catalog, you will find that the majority of street-oriented cams fall in this range. Average power was also down, but the engine pulled ahead of the 101 cam at 5,400 rpm, picking up 6.5 hp at peak.