So for Zumper our vision as I mentioned was to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel and so instead of going in with just an idea, I built like a really crappy version of the end game that I wanted to build. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. And then when I moved out to America, Russel was software engineer at Google and I had no technical background so I basically hit up my network for anyone with a technical background living in the US who might be interested in joining and Russel and I really hit it off and he was the perfect cofounder. Its a Greek name, British accent. Anthemos Georgiades is the CEO and co-founder at Zumper. Now my cofounders were phenomenal in bringing them to meetings. So cofounders are difficult especially if youre not technical as really hard to find a good technical cofounder but the great thing is once you do and it takes a long time, they are able to attract the next generation of talent in to the company and thats how you kind of build your engineering team out. Anthemos Georgiades CEO and co-founder. Just out of curiosity, Anthemos, like how many nos did you get for example on your seed round if you have to count it? They are the two ways that Zumper currently monetizes them and there are two folks that [11:35]. Alejandro: Just out of curiosity, Anthemos, like how many nos did you get for example on your seed round if you have to count it? Your second month you spend getting term sheets and documents signed. So watching board members from the early investments are [19:38] who now runs Good Water but was originally Kleiner and then Eric [19:42] from Kleiner and theyre both experts at product market set. You know its interesting that you mentioned the chicken and the egg. So I think as your company matures, you look for investors that have something that you dont have and so for us, were not yet doing $100 million in revenue. In the early days, youre going to need to take all the capital you can get. So our CFO is fantastic and what he was able to bring to the series C was real credibility where I meet the investors, get them excited about our vision and our story and then they spend hours with the CFO on the second or third meeting digesting our historical financial as were talking about where were headed. So that was great. So I guess for those listeners that are looking at acquiring other companies to perhaps grow a little bit faster, what kind of advice would you give to them? But I will say the one thing is true is that you always raise on momentum. Got it. It is ultimately the culture. Obviously they knew and I think for us it was like telling Axle and the rest of our investors that there are going to be months where we massively beat plans and there will be months where were behind plans. So how did you meet your cofounders? Meaning hey, we send you a ton of leads this month that close in to leases. Saying that, I have connections through both business school and previous people that have gone through BCG venture capital and most of your listeners and entrepreneurs will know so much of this is about like getting warm introductions to VCs so I did have a couple of cheats to get in through the network or through the BCG network. They wanted to close apartments like they book a hotel and so took the status of like 35 different apartments we leased using the technology in San Francisco to VCs and said, Hey, were really going to rebuild all of this but heres some data that shows this really can work at scale, and thats how we raised the first million dollars from some of the names that you mentioned. She was our original CPO and after the series A, she moved on to roller, another company and we promoted someone internally to CPO. So I think as your company matures, you look for investors that have something that you dont have and so for us, were not yet doing $100 million in revenue. So I as British person moving to Silicon Valley in 2012 I have never run a startup before. And it was just [22:11] during the process that its a startup, were at growth stage but not to expect to be able to predict our courses like that public company again. So I guess like I have one thing to follow up on this. I met Russel who [04:01] engineering products through just the personal connections in London. And investors love that story because its easy to believe that you can continue to do that. At Zumper, based in San Francisco, he leads the company in its mission to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. So it doesnt always work out and I think thats fine. Anthemos Georgiades CEO at Zumper United States 4K followers 500+ connections Join to view profile Zumper Harvard Business School Websites Websites Company Website http://www.zumper.com Company. So I guess for a marketplace or lets say for the people that are listening to us like what kind of metrics do you think for the most part if were talking about hyper growth companies, like they should be a little bit more mindful about? And were just a little earlier than obviously a public company so our gross is spikier. So Anthemos, theres always a first time and you know I guess this is the first time in the history of the DealMakers Show that Im able to interview someone that has been involve on the M&A but more on the buy side. We both had ideas to be entrepreneurs but neither of us have the guts to actually go for it. And for you I guess personally and professionally because I think they both come together, so how has your leadership and management skills changed over the time from leading the company of lets say four to ten folks initially to a company of over a hundred employees? And the biggest change in the series C I just raised versus in the early days is having a CFO. But oh we must have had like 20 persons or 20 people say not now or later. Saying that, if you do have multiple term sheets the second point is of course, like before you get to liquidity, revenue is irrelevant and if revenue gets in the way of bringing either the consumer on to your platform or the supply side person on to your platform, you should not be trying to charge. So what is the best way, Anthemos, for people that are listening to reach out and say hi? Were going to charge you per lead or for the smaller landlords we charge them if theyre [11:15] for the transaction. Raising money first, marketplace businesses is still really difficult and Ive raised $90 million and Im still saying it is difficult. So in terms of timeline, you were mentioning that the C round, you guys closed this 46 million a couple of months ago. We both wanted to be entrepreneurs. You start to build depth and management structures. So one is weve always promoted within so whenever we needed a role, we always prefer to promote someone instead of hiring from outside. Youre right that is wrong advice. In the early days we love the exposure to Silicon Valley investors. And so as you mature you look for a different kind of investor and that naturally tends to happen. Theres never like an exact number you need like when Uber raised money or you know Zillow raised money, theres never like a number they have to be at. Absolutely. They are brilliant about. Saying that, in the early days you kind of need to bring on all the capital that you can. My friend have had to camp out overnight outside the property management office to get access to the new apartment and this is [01:09] you know things coming online, you can order a cab via phone, you can book a hotel online. You always have more nos that more yeses in fundraising but it was ultimately about just hustling my network as much as possible. Anthemos and Russell met in London while working at a consulting company back in 2006, but it was after they moved to the U.S and experienced the pain of finding a place to live that they decided to found Zumper along with Taylor Glass-Moore and Leah Jones. "While many markets cool off during the winter, Miami is still posting month-over-month increases. Your email address is 100% safe from spam! Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. A lot of business schools was how to make decisions with imperfect information. Alejandro: Got it. I think at that stage it makes sense. I think its easy not to set those expectations and get caught in the relationship where neither side is being clear on what they expect. And so just be prepared that however smart, however many smart people have looked the deal and thought about whether it will work, it always take a little bit more time than you think it will to integrate because theres always some gremlin kind of hiding in the works that youre going to find. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah, I mean BCG I think you get access to the 23 year olds CEOs who had been working for 40 years and kind of crazy in consulting you take the shortcut in your careers to being in the board room. And investors love that story because its easy to believe that you can continue to do that. Of course. Well, today's guest noticed that experience and wanted to improve it. Every company is completely different and theres no gold standard. The reality is often in the early stages, youre going to want to take all the capital thats given to you and you may not have multiple term sheets. So one is weve always promoted within so whenever we needed a role, we always prefer to promote someone instead of hiring from outside. The one unifying theme in every fundraising Ive run is momentum. We love our investors. It looks better for investors and it makes your life easier. I mean to a point network gets you an intro but a lot of intros are 10 minute meetings where the VC immediately decides its not for them which is totally fair. Get Anthemos Georgiades's email address (a*****@zumper.com) and phone number (646398..) at RocketReach. So the series B, weve done story now look at how quickly the renters are growing on the platform. And it is the culture that keeps people here, not the compensation or anything else. So we want to be the first ever kind of full stack rental platform for long term leases and we monetize that two ways. And your cap table I mean as I was reviewing I just felt as I was looking at the Oscars of Silicon Valley, the red carpet. Well help you prequalify renters and actually get the renter in to a lease, signing the documents, paying the first month deposit but well charge you a percentage of the lease fairly. All photos courtesy of Forbes Councils members. A lot of it was completely bottom up. So what is the best way, Anthemos, for people that are listening to reach out and say hi? Im the CEO and Ive always felt that it was my responsibility to do the fundraising. Alejandro: Got it and before we actually dive in to the journey here, so consulting and business school, this is a few things that I typically hear so from some of our other guests. He was with HBS 10 years ago. It was incredibly difficult. Alejandro: So Im completely there with you. Rear mounted 3" standard exhaust port, and 2" standard air intake Exterior dimensions of unit are 24" wide, 26" deep, and 40" high with mounted controller. Like many of our most successful entrepreneurs. Got it. Every company is completely different and theres no gold standard. For me, its Zumper, an apartment rental platform. And you know I think hiring is definitely tough but retaining is even more complicated so is there any things that you for example seen yourself that work on that front? It has to be me and thats how I started the company six years ago after business school. Anthemos Georgiades: Yes, weve raised $90 million in capital including a series C that we just closed three months ago. At scale you get to do that and have those teams. Over time, its great to be able to bring in your team. Tanguy Le Louarn Chief Product Officer. So I saw for example Axle Springer which is you know more kind of like the corporate. Anthemos Georgiades is the co-founder and CEO of Zumper. How does the day to day at Zumper work? It looks better for investors and it makes your life easier. I guess the question that I would ask you and perhaps some advice for some of those that are listening, that are building a business that is more around the network effects, the marketplaces, should they walk the other way if the investor is asking too much about revenue early on on the financing cycles? I love it. I dont think theres a startup I could have launched that taught me more. Unluckily weve made some phenomenal early hires so the company that have all scaled to leadership roles, thats fantastic for retention because those people know that we could have hired from outside but we bet on them and it worked and so Zumper is a place to build theyre career not somewhere else. And then my other cofounder Kurt Taylor I met through his mother who was an [04:43] and it was another example of just pure hustle. And then at business school, I think the single biggest thing I learned through the case study method which is how they teach it at Harvard Business School but I think its true. So in terms of timeline, you were mentioning that the C round, you guys closed this 46 million a couple of months ago. You just get to this kind of motion of you all feel the same and you kind of pull in the same direction. I mean youre doing various jobs, head of sales, head of finance, head of fundraising, head of like DZ. At Zumper, based in San Francisco, he leads the company in its mission to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel.